A Digital Marketing Strategy Session with Ryan Deiss and Donald Miller

Once you have clarified your messaging using the StoryBrand marketing framework, the next step in growing your business is to design an effective digital marketing strategy that will help kick off sales opportunities for your business.

The question many business owners have, how do we get more exposure to our websites, services, and products? 

Assuming you have a good product and services, and you have already clarified your messaging, here's a simple outline for creating more sales opportunities for your business:

  • 01. Identify which channel your business is getting the most traction from? Is it LinkedIn, Google Ads, Organic Search, Influencers? 
  • 02. Next, you need to uncover how do you get more opportunities through your most effective channel? 
  • 03. Stay discipilned, and do not throw away resources to promote your business across every channel. Stay focused on growing the channel that is already bringing you results. It's always easier to add new channels after you've grown and hit your milestones.
  • 04. Once you have hit your milestone goal through your primary channel, take a percentage of your growth and expand and experiment in a second channel to increase your exposure

This is the bases of Ryan Deiss of DigitalMarketer.com and Donald Miller of Business Made Simple discussion in episode #19 and #20 of the Business Made Simple podcast.


  • 01: Identify how people are currently buying from you? [00:53]
  • 02: Find out what caused your customer to buy from you. Most businesses want to know how do get more customers. The better question is to work start from the end, you work your way backwards and you optimize each and every step that caused a customer to come through your business.[02:16]
  • 03. Once you have figured out what's causing people to your business, you ask, how can we now grow the channel that's driving us most of our opportunities? [05:34]
  • 04. To succeed, you know to be clear who you're selling to [07:15]
  • 05. You can't have clarity if you're speaking to three different people at once [09:56]
  • 06. Understand the micro-commitments that will be valuable for your ideal customer to make. So, as humans, we show commitment in two ways, our wallets and our calendars. [15:25]
  • 07. Consumption is not required for ascension. Part 2 [00:01]
  • 08. Remember, your ideal customer wants to buy the solution to the problem. When you have identified the problem (pain) and you present the solution (advil), you can effectively upsell. Part 2 [06:38]
  • 09. Here's the secret. Traffic, getting more awareness online, do you know how you get it? You buy it. You go to the traffic store called Google and you go to the traffic store called Facebook and you just buy advertising. Part 2 [11:31]

Ryan Deiss – The Digital Marketing Strategy Your Business Needs [Part 1]

  • Donald Miller (00:11):

I want to know, we could go story route, because every time we get together, we pull out a whiteboard and geek out on narrative frameworks. But let's talk practical marketing. Let's say there's somebody, they make pies. They've got a pie company. They're selling a little bit at the local farmer's market. 10 years later, they're a $20 million pie company. What happened between the farmer's market and the $20 million in terms of marketing. In other words, what was, step one, step two, step three? Just use your imagination and say, okay, Don, here's how pie, let's call it Acme Pie Company. What did Acme Pie Company do first to grow?

  • Ryan Deiss (00:53):

The first thing that you got to do is begin at the end, which is how does the sale happen. In variably as a company, if you get any traction whatsoever, what you have to ask yourself is how is this happening and how do I get more of it? So, you got to think if you're this pie company and you're out there in the farmer's markets. When you make that sale, how did that sale occur? Well, somebody who's at the farmer's market, they walked by, maybe they smelled the pie and they said, I want to buy one. So, what you have there is you've got a product and you have a channel, in this case, your sales channel is the farmer's market.

Now, what most people want to do when they think about marketing is they geek out and they're like, oh, you know what I need to do now that I understand this marketing thing is I need to be in every single channel. So, obviously I got to be selling our pies. We need to be advertising and Facebook and Google, and I need to TikTok strategy, obviously. And they try to do 17 billion different things. And what I tell people is step number one is to first clarify how are your current sales happening and how do we get more of those in the same way? It's always easier to expand within a channel that's already working than it is to take your product into new channels. So, that's kind of the first step.

  • Donald Miller (02:06):

So, first step is just, we got to sell more pies at the farmer's market.

And would that be, would you say, signage and coupons that you're passing out?

  • Ryan Deiss (02:16):

I mean, so let me talk about the process and then we'll get into maybe some of the tactics. So, the process is, you start from the sale so that the sale occurs. That is the, it's not the last stage of the customer journey, but it's kind of that part where you got a buyer. Now, what you want to ask yourself is, okay, what happens immediately before that? So, we want to start at the sale and work our way backwards, because marketing's job is not to sell. Marketing's job is to generate more sales conversations. Whether that sale is occurring in the physical space, like getting more people into the store to walk up to your farmer's market or a stand or it's getting more visitors to come and watch a video on your website or attend a webinar.

Marketing's job is to generate more those sales "conversations". I'm throwing up the air quote, because it may not be a literal conversation. So, how do we get more of those within the confines? We're going to just move one step prior in the customer journey, which is somebody walking up to the stand. All right, how do we get more people to walk up to the stand? Well, better signage. Maybe you say, I want to put a sign for the pies, like right out at the entrance so that they come and find ours. So, the philosophy is you always want to start from a process perspective. You want to start from the sale and work your way backwards and optimize in reverse. Everybody simply want to say, how do we get more people showing up? That's not really the answer. You start from the end, you work your way backwards and you optimize each and every step. Now, once you have maximized that, and I would think at a farmer's market-

You're going to maximize it pretty quickly. So, now the question is we need to expand our channels.

  • Donald Miller (03:54):

All right. Okay. So, let's go back. We're going to do free samples. There's a lady out in front of the line stealing business from other people's pie stands, because she's got free samples. You've got a really good display. You're showing a lot more pies. You've got a big sign. That's probably about it. She's not getting to 20 million that way.

  • Ryan Deiss (04:19):

Probably not. Yeah. But I do like what you said about like the free samples. So, maybe you're getting people just to walk up. So, how do I get more people actually come up to my stand? Well, let's get out in front of it and offer samples. So, that is a good example of moving away from that. So, better signage, sampling. All of these are tactical things that are designed to do what? Get more people to walk up to the stand. But yeah, you're probably not going to get to $20 million doing that. So, maybe you're thinking like, oh, okay, how do we expand within the same type of channel that we have right now? So, that's the first thing.

  • Donald Miller (04:50):

So, now you would be looking for other farmer's markets, you'd be looking for other opportunities in a similar environment. And then-

  • Ryan Deiss (05:00):

That sales motion is the same. So, that's the key. So, if we're going to expand, everybody they want to just go and get more traffic and get more awareness. But if you know that you've got this selling strategy that works, let's drive more people into that specific conversation. And that's what you want to do first.

Donald Miller (05:22):

So, samples and signage duplicated to not just Northeast farmer's market, but Northwest, Southwest, Southeast, all over the city, you're hitting all the major farmer's markets.

  • Ryan Deiss (05:34):

Yeah. And let's take this into the digital realm where, frankly, I have more experience than farmer's markets. This would be the equivalent of saying, we've got this Facebook ad campaign that's working really well. And it's driving people. We're going from a Facebook ad, let's say, to a webinar registration. And once we get people to register for the webinar, if we get whatever, X number of people on the webinar, then we know that 10% of them are going to buy or they're going to apply or whatever that action is. We shouldn't be asking ourselves. Okay, I've got a webinar that's working. That's our farmer's market stand. We shouldn't say like, okay, what I now need to do is I need to go and do a quiz funnel or I need to go and do ... No, no, no. How do we just get more people into this webinar? This is the sales motion that is working. And so that's the piece to consider, how do we get more people to go through this exact same process.

  • Donald Miller (06:28):

Got it. Okay. I want to do both then. I want to scale up both the Facebook idea and the pie idea. At some point, if this is my mother's pie company, she's going to have to duplicate staff, because now she's got two farmer's markets that are happening on the same day, which adds another layer of complexity. You're trying to figure out who can actually do samples, who can make sure the inventory is right. But now she's got to shift gears and let's say, she's going to start selling these things online. Let's move quickly into your realm of expertise. She's got a webinar on how to make a great pie and then you can order her pies. Now she wants to scale that up and let's say she's got dry ice. She's figuring out the shipping and all that kind of stuff. And she can now scale. What's her first step moving into the online realm?

  • Ryan Deiss (07:15):

Well, I think you got to decide, who am I selling to? Because if you go online, you got to get crystal clear on who your who is. That's always the first step is determining who's my who, because if I'm selling pies, I could choose to sell them direct to consumer, or I could choose to go more of the wholesale route and sell to bakeries and restaurants and things like that. So, that's always the first step, getting crystal clear. And the biggest mistake I see people making is they say, well, I sell pies. Everybody loves pie. So, my market is everybody. And it is absolutely vital. We need to understand that market segments exist as concentric circles. And a great example to use for this is, well, I'll use Facebook, not as a channel, but as a product. When Zuckerberg first launched Facebook, their market was just Harvard students.

That was the ideal market. That was the center core of that concentric circle. Well, once it worked there, they then went out to other Ivy league colleges. Then they went out to all universities. Then it was universities and high schools. And then ultimately it's open to everyone. So, just because anyone could be interested in your product, you have to ask yourself, who's our ideal market? Who are those people who are actively seeking what I'm selling? They understand the value. That is that kind of central ideal market. So, that's where you got to go first. Now, you're going to run up against that pretty quickly. You're going to run up against the size of that population.

Then you got to go out to what we would refer to as the available market. Who's our available market? These are people who are solution aware. So, they are people who are actively looking for pies. They're actively looking, but they don't necessarily know us. They don't necessarily trust us. They haven't necessarily bought from us in the past, but they're actively looking for the thing that we sell. And so getting clear on your who, and starting with the smallest, most aware market is step number one. So, that's what I'd say. Like, who's your who?

  • Donald Miller (09:17):

And for her, I mean, for her, because we have an amazing number of businesses listening to this podcast who are like the people selling pies at a farmer's market. They're completely unaware of digital anything. And so understanding, look, I'm going to try to sell to people who have, I mean, I'm just shooting from the hip here, but who do weekly family meals or whatever. We know this demographic. They always have dinner after church on Sunday and we're going to go after them. It's important just to say, okay, we're going to go after somebody. That way we can reverse engineer a copy. What kind of emails we're going to send? Because you can't just write an email to everybody.

  • Ryan Deiss (09:56):

Well, you know this. I mean, you can't possibly have clarity if you're talking to three different people at the same time. And so that's what's going to inform, so now, okay, I know who I'm talking to. I have to create my, my sales page. There's got to be a page there where somebody can buy what I'm selling. Now, you've got to figure out, we're talking digital. Digital marketing and digital campaigns. Is the job of this digital campaign to make the sale, to close the sale in a digital environment, or is it to generate a qualified lead where that sale is then closed over the phone, over Zoom in the physical space? A lot of people misunderstand this about digital marketing. They think if I'm doing digital marketing, then clearly I need to transact the business online. Prior to COVID, do you know that only about, I think it was like 16% of sales, of retail transactions, occurred online, prior to COVID.

Post COVID in a world where nobody can even leave. It only got up to about 33%. So, still the vast majority of sales and yet digital marketing spend now outpaces traditional kind of terrestrial spend. So, don't think that just because you sell online or that you sell over the phone or in a storefront that you can't still market online and generate the leads. So, now we know our who. That's step one. Step two is what is the specific action that we're trying to elicit from our marketing? Is it getting the transaction to occur online or is it generating some type of lead, some type of registration so that it can be sold somewhere else? That's kind of the next thing.

  • Donald Miller (11:32):

Are we trying to get them to the farmer's market? Is that where you start creating the sales funnel, Ryan? Is that where you start saying, okay, top of the funnel is they're going to attend this webinar, next, they're going to show up at the farmer's market. Next they're going to ... Is that where you're starting to create the actual, what we'd call sales funnel?

  • Ryan Deiss (11:47):

Yeah, I mean, so, that would be the end or I guess in the bottom of the funnel is when they make that actual transaction, where does that take place? Where's the point of sale? And more and more points of sale are occurring online. So, if I'm selling pies and I'm selling it to a family, well, I have every reason to believe that somebody can make a buying decision without having to talk to somebody without having to come into a store. I know what pie is. I've heard this pie is good. I have to believe that it's good. I will order this pie online. I will click a link, enter my credit card information and boom, pie arrives. But you've got to decide, is that what you want? Or is your sales motion, hey, we want to have people tell us what their favorite pie is.

And we want to get them on the phone with one of our pie consultants who can teach them how to do it. Now in general, if you don't have an average order value in the thousands, it usually doesn't make sense to generate, usually you can't afford, to generate leads online at a low enough price point to make that math work out if that customer isn't worth a lot. So, if I'm talking to somebody selling pies, their average customer value is probably in the hundreds of dollars, if not dozens of dollars. They're going to need to generate that lead. And they're going to need to close that out without any human intervention. But that is, I know my who. The second step is I need to clarify, what is the call to action that I'm going to make? What is that specific call to action? Then I can build my sales page. Then I can build my page, because how do you build a page if you don't know what you're going to ask people to do?

  • Donald Miller (13:21):

Well, we're going to find out real quick, I would imagine with mom's pie company that exactly, as you said, we can't drive enough traffic to the farmer's market. We're going to have to ship these things. We're going to have to have freezers full of pies and ship them in dry ice. And that's the only way this thing is going to scale. So, at that point, we're making it a strategic decision. Nobody's physically going to stand in front of each other and talk. It's all going to have to happen digitally. If we're going to get to $20 million, that's the only way that's going to happen, I think.

Unless we have $20 million and 19,900 or 19,900,000 million overhead. That's the only way to do the other way. So, we don't want that. We want a lot of profit. Now she's made this decision. No, she just wants to sell these things over the internet. And you're consulting with her. What does her sales funnel look like? I mean give me all the options that she would create to ... Is it Facebook ads? Is it webinar? Is she going to incorporate social media? What's the sales funnel going to look like for her to sell these pies?

  • Ryan Deiss (14:20):

So, what you're dealing with here, if you're selling pies, there isn't a tremendous amount of education. You know what a pie is.

  • Ryan Deiss (14:34):

Right. And lots of lard. But that is important, because very often people see these funnels and they're like, okay, I see this market over here doing webinars. And I see this one over here, who's got like a quiz or a contest funnel. And this person over here, they're doing a product launch. And it's like, okay, you just have to ask what must someone, no feeler believed to be true, to be able, willing, and ready to make a purchase. What do they have to do? Now, when it comes to pies, they simply have to believe that your pie is better than the one that they could get ... just down the store, frozen one. They got to believe that it's amazing. So, for this one, the sales funnel is all about how do we bring them in and get them to make that initial transaction. So, what I always ask myself is, how do I get them to make a micro commitment? I know I want them to buy, not just one, but a lot of pie.

  • Donald Miller (15:23):

You want to be their pie source. Yeah.

  • Ryan Deiss (15:25):

I want to be their ultimate source of pie where they're on. Maybe I want to be on the pie of the month program, where every month I'm shipping them a ton of pies. I'm getting them a few and over the holidays I'm their source of gifts and things like that. So, that's what I want. I want them in our pie club. I want them getting auto-shipped. I want them buying gifts from us. I want all of these things, but where does it start? So, if what you want is equal, and again, I know who I'm talking to. I know in general, how I'm going to be transacting that. Now I've got to say what do I want, why I want them in all this stuff. Okay, great. That's marriage. That's marriage. That's not right where it's going to start.

And you can't even say from the outset, buy all this, because I don't know you yet. So, you have to say, okay, if that's marriage, then what's, hey, let's go grab coffee. And so what I'd say if I'm consulting with a pie person is I'd say, what is a small commitment, the smallest commitment that you can do that would be the equivalent of ... I understand Mr. And Mrs. pie person that when you were selling these face to face that you were doing sampling. A piece of pie on the end of a toothpick. So, how can we bring that online? How can we allow people to kind of taste and experience? And then they say, oh, well we have these little mini pies. And so what if we did a taster kit of all six of our pies, but in mini versions and it's for this amount.

And it's basically essentially just enough to cover the costs. You're not trying to get rich here, but try this taster kit of all of our pies. That is a micro-commitment. So, as humans, we show commitment in two ways, our wallets and our calendars. Time and money, money and time. It's how we show commitment. If there's no commitment of money and time, then it's not there. So, just getting an opt-in isn't enough. I'm not saying that they shouldn't try to do that, but again, we're working backwards. So, we want the person in the pie of the month club.

We want the average order value to be 200 and something dollars we want them spending $500 a year from us on pies. That's what we want. How do we get them in there? Well, we want them to buy a single pie. Well, maybe they're not ready to buy a single pie. Maybe they buy this taster kit. And so we put this thing together and that's what we promote. So, all of the landing page efforts where we're driving people and trying to get them to buy this taster kit. Now, if we believe we can do that, we say, okay, what's the next logical step?

  • Donald Miller (17:54):

Do you do that if they buy the taster kit, then you enter them into the next campaign, which is to make us your holiday pie? So, every holiday we're going to want you to buy some sort of pie from us. Or do you literally think of it as campaign one, and there's a million people in campaign one, a 100,000 of them actually make the commitment? So, now there's a 100,000 people in campaign two, which is commit to us for a pie every holiday. And then anybody who does that you go on to campaign three. Is that literally how you think of it when you think about digital marketing?

  • Ryan Deiss (18:27)

Yeah. I think about it in those stages. So, now we know what the entry point is. Our entry point offer. And this is what all companies need to figure out. What is your entry point offer? And the entry point offer needs to be a micro-commitment. There could be something else before that, but what's your entry point offer that is a micro-commitment?

Ryan Deiss – The Digital Marketing Strategy Your Business Needs [Part 2]

  • Ryan Deiss (00:01):

For follow up because there's not yet a commitment of time and there's not a commitment of money.

So I'll give you an example. Somebody registering for a webinar or some type of live event, them registering is subscribing, is them giving you their email address. It's not until they show up though, that it's become a micro-commitment. Does that make sense? Somebody registering. So you've got the five minute marketing makeover videos.

That I'm sure a lot of your listeners would be familiar with. If somebody registers for that, but they never watch, no commitment. If they register and they watch video 1, 2, 3, now you've got a micro-commitment cause they've given you some of their time. Now it's appropriate to make a higher ticket offering. Right? A lot of people say it doesn't hurt to ask. Of course it hurts to ask, right?

Just try it. Go up to somebody you just met and be like, hey. Nice to meet you. You want to get married? You're a weirdo. You can't back off of that and say, oh, just kidding, can I buy you a drink? Too late. And so when we're marketing online, because it's so easy to hit the back button, you want to start at that entry point offer and then work your way up in an appropriate manner. So if I were designing the pie funnel, it'd be like, great. We've got our pie taster kit and let's say, it's for 9 95, you get the pie taster kit and shipping is included, right?

So this person's not making any money on that. But what we know is if somebody buys that, now on the very next page, hey, you got the taster kit, but you know what we're going to find out? We're going to find out that our pecan, our cherry and our apple pie are going to be your favorites. They're everybody's favorite. So right now, for a limited time, normally these three pies would be X amount. We're going to give you 20% off if you order now. Now this is important. And I hope everybody pays attention to this. Consumption is not required for ascension.

Consumption is not required for ascension. Here's what I mean by that. People don't have to fully experience the value of the thing they just bought to be willing to ascend to the next level. So a lot of marketers will say, well, I don't want to follow up with them about our pies until they've had a chance to taste for themselves just how great our pie is. Don't do that. Because what we know is that buying releases chemical endorphins, right? Merely the act of buying makes us feel a certain way and we're kind of in this zone. So what the benefit that we have in a digital environment is once somebody buys something, you can have something right there on that next page that you're ready to offer them. So don't wait. You need to make that immediate offer.

  • Donald Miller (02:35):

Even before they get it in the shipping, in the mail, you upsell them right there.

  • Ryan Deiss (02:39):

Absolutely. Let me give you an example. All right. So I bought a Peloton, like every other human on earth probably during the season. Right? So, yeah, I bought a Peloton. But I have not yet received the Peloton. I don't know. I think I'll get it sometime in 2030. But I made this investment. Now that's a bit more than a micro commitment, right? But I made this investment. Now, what am I doing? Well, I immediately go and I start buying additional workout clothes. I buy a yoga mat. I buy some weights. Peloton gave me, oh, do you want the extra shoes? Yeah, obviously I want the extra shoes, I'm going to be using this thing all the time.

I haven't yet experienced the value, but I'm in that emotional state. I'm in that mindset where my identity has shifted. Right? I'm now someone who exercises and therefore I'm going to continue to behave like someone who does. The same thing is true with our pie person.

I'm now someone, clearly, who buys pies online. I know because I just did. Yeah, it was a taster kit. Yeah, it was only 10 bucks, but I am now someone who buys pies online.

  • Donald Miller (03:44):

Yeah. The taster kit is 10 bucks, but the very next screen would say, Thanksgiving is six weeks away. Pre-order your pumpkin and your chocolate fudge pie now, $35, they'll both arrive the Tuesday before Thanksgiving. You're saying right then is where you want to hit them.

  • Ryan Deiss (04:02):

Right then and there. Right. And you could do it even if there's not thanksgiving.

  • Donald Miller (04:05):

Everybody listen to me. Yeah. You got to listen to me. This podcast is making you money. I don't know if you even realize it or not. It's making me money. Every time I get with Ryan, I make money.

  • Ryan Deiss (04:17):

Everybody waits. Everybody waits. Everybody thinks that you need to wait. You don't need to wait.

  • Donald Miller (04:21):

Everybody does wait. And I would have waited before I talked to you. You go right then.

  • Ryan Deiss (04:25):

Go right then. And if they buy, you should sell them something else.

  • Donald Miller (04:29):

You do it again. It's funny. Go ahead.

  • Ryan Deiss (04:32):

You can't over do it. You can put somebody through this upsell hell, we've all been there. But I found, we have tested this-

  • Donald Miller (04:38):

So by the end of the transaction, I'm actually buying the pie company.

  • Ryan Deiss (04:41):

Right. Two. And there's some people that will keep going but if they do that initial transaction, then you have what's called the core offer, then you have what we refer to as the profit maximizer.

  • Donald Miller (04:53):

Well, now explain to me what's the profit maximizer though. How does that work?

  • Ryan Deiss (04:57):

All right. So this is good. So you've got your entry point offer. You're going to make no money off of that from a profit-

  • Donald Miller (05:04):

Six bucks. It costs me $6 to make it and ship it. Yeah.

  • Ryan Deiss (05:08):

And you got to ship it. And you had to pay to generate the lead. Right? So you need that next offer because you probably actually have even lost a little bit of money just on the acquisition cost alone because maybe to generate that buyer, it costs you $20. And then to put the thing in the mail and all the other stuff, it's an additional five bucks, you've made 10. You're still behind $15.

  • Donald Miller (05:27):

Yeah. Okay. So we got to make that up.

  • Ryan Deiss (05:30):

Yeah, you need an offering, that core offer on the next side. We're like, hey, buy these three pies. Normally it would be $80, get it for $50. And by the way, I have no idea how much a pie costs.

But let's just say. And let's say 40% of the people buy that, now I'm pretty much at break even, I'm feeling good about myself. That thing that's in the third position, that profit maximizer, that is an opportunity to kind of go for broke. That is an opportunity because they've said yes not once, they've said it twice. So that is an opportunity right then and there to say, how do we 10X the immediate average order value of this customer? How do we 10X it? So if everything that you had offered up until this point was, let's say $50. I would look to do a $500 offer there. That could be, hey, we got this thing for the entire year. You're in the pie of the month, you're going to get this and that. That's the time where you just want to go all the way up to the top. Here's the best thing that we have. And the key is you only show that to the people who bought twice, the people who didn't buy either one, they never see that.

Right. It's only those people who bought those two offerings.

  • Donald Miller (06:38):

Everything you're saying makes complete sense and it's counter-intuitive. And now that I think of it, there's a couple experiences ... There's a car wash that I go to and there's the $8, the $12 and the $15 wash. I always hit $12 and then I don't buy it but as soon as I do that, they say, would you like to add a $3 bug shield? Well, the $3 bug shield is just the $15 offer. Because I hit the 12, they're like are you sure you don't want the 15? Because it's a bug shield.

Again, I'm converting a little part of the garage to a gym. And I went into a fitness store the other day and bought some equipment. What that lady didn't know is if she would've just said, Don, if you put this in the corner of your garage, it's an extra two grand. But if you put it in this corner, you're going to get these triceps and these... I'd have done it. I think I'd have done it. But if she just said, if you want to do it right, it's going to cost you twice what you came in here to spend. I think I'd have done it, but she didn't say that.

  • Ryan Deiss (07:38):

Yeah, there is a certain percentage of the population and I am one of them who we just always buy. And by the way, I did this when I was poor. I would either buy the best or nothing at all.

  • Donald Miller (07:49):

You want to buy the solution to the problem. You're not here to save money. You're like, I'm here to solve a problem and I'm going to buy... If you try to throw in a car, I don't need a car to solve the problem so that's kind of stupid, but I'm here to buy the solution to the problem.

  • Ryan Deiss (08:02):

Such a great point. The point you made there is so important and it's how you make these different upsells without people getting mad. If you say, all right, pie taster kit, cool. Obviously you like pie. Do you want more pies? God, you just bought three pies. We've got this whole pie of the month thing, we weren't even going to talk about it, but clearly you're someone who's in to pie. We know because you just bought some pies, right? The end result is I want pie. Now if they had said in the third thing, hey, by the way, you're somebody who likes pies. Did you also know that what you should maybe look at also is workout equipment because pies make you fat? I'm not here for that. Right?

It's a different value proposition. It's a different benefit, right? I am here for this end result. When you're making these different upsells, you want to stay consistent with their desired end result. Don't try to deviate them from their path. That is when you can come off as overly hypey, that's when you come off as bait and switchy.

That's when it's like, oh, I'm just going to try to take everything that you got. And the rule that we have is speed and automation, right? Speed and automation. So the first bit of the funnel is the taster, the entry point offer, the equivalent of the piece of pie on the stick, the hey, let's go get coffee, right? That's that entry point. Then the next one is, this is just a normal order, it's the next logical step. Right? Then what we want to think of in the third one is how do we get them the result they wanted faster and or with less work.

So that's what we mean by speed and automation. So whatever this thing is they just bought, so clearly you're a pie person because you just bought a lot of pies. So how would you like to get even more pies without having to come back to our site and buy them, join our pie of the month thing, right? Or let's say I'm selling software. I sell software online or a software solution. I bought some templates and then on the next page, I went ahead and bought a license to the software to go month to month. And then the other one is, hey, do you want us to just totally implement and set all this up for you?

That speed and automation, do you want to get this thing that you bought? Do you want us to include expedited shipping? That speed. I think about any time I bought anything from Ikea, the amount of money that I would pay just to have somebody come and assemble that for me, they won't do it, but I mean, that's automation, right? So if you think about it in that, it's not how do I just get more money from them? It's how do I get them the end result that they want faster and/or with less work? That's how you can continue to expand your average order value without clubbing people over the head and stealing their wallets.

  • Donald Miller (10:45):

Let me summarize the value that you've offered here. There was a lot. Scaling up mom's pie company. But where we really made her the most money after she automated and got away from farmer's markets was entry-level product commitment, $6 taster pie thing. The percentage of people who buy that, up sell immediately and think about upselling speed and automation. So automating the pie showing up on Thanksgiving would be the natural upsell. To that upsell, again, much smaller market, we're going to sell pie of the month and we're going to sell 12 pies. So a big giant profit maximizer, I'm going to call it the profit bomb, drop the profit bomb.

  • Ryan Deiss (11:31):

Profit maximizer is the 12 pies but we also want to do that immediately. And that's going to automate great pies in your kitchen once a month. And if you've got a family of five or six, and you've got people coming over every weekend, that's not even enough pie, right? But then you would say after about three, you need to be a little bit careful you're going to not offend somebody. And also stay within the lane of solving the pie problem. Not jumping train tracks over here into the let's lose some of the weight my pies are going to put on your belly.

If I'm a listener though, I'm thinking, okay, I understand how to structure an offer, but how do I get more traffic? You still haven't gotten any more traffic, Ryan. Here's the secret. Traffic, getting more awareness online, do you know how you get it? You buy it. You go to the traffic store called Google and you go to the traffic store called Facebook and you just buy advertising. And now everybody thinks, oh but isn't it expensive? And the answer is, it's irrelevant. It costs what it costs. The key to being able to buy advertising online, and by the way, Google, which also owns YouTube, and Facebook which also owns Instagram, those two companies and those four channels, Google YouTube, Facebook, Instagram represent over 86% of all online ad spend. So that's the only place you need to go for a long, long, long time, right? You don't need to worry a ton about what's your search effort or your content marketing, or again, TikTok strategy or any of this stuff. You go to the traffic store and you buy the traffic from them at what it costs.

  • Donald Miller (13:18):

And you just figure out the numbers of am I able to buy traffic and sell enough pies to come back and put 20% of my profit or whatever back into it and that's it.

  • Ryan Deiss (13:28):

Yep, because, here's the deal. He or she who's able and willing to spend the most to acquire a customer wins. That's it. He or she who's able and willing to spend the most to acquire a customer wins. How can you become able and willing? Either you got to go raise a whole bunch of money or get into a ton of debt, or you simply structure a funnel such that you realize more value from your customers faster. Now you can pour it right back into marketing. Everybody thinks that marketing is about traffic, digital market is about traffic. It's not. If you get the message right, and you get the offer structure right, then traffic is easy. You literally just go and buy the stuff.

But yeah, marketing is merely the amplication of messaging, if you have a bad messaging, it ain't going to work.

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